how play – and playfulness – can breathe new life into your ministry – Transcript

Jim Latimer 

Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Jim Latimer. I’m your host. We have the joy and great fun to have with us today, the Reverend Holly MillerShank. Holly is an experienced settled minister, interim Minister, and judicatory person. She’s done interim work both at the local congregational level, and at the conference judicatory level. So, she’s in lots of things that give her insight into transitional ministry. And I’m delighted that she’s going to take a few minutes to be with us today.

And she has a real playful aspect of her personality. It’s just really obvious. She uses that a lot in her ministry. And so, Holly, I would love it if you would speak to how play breathes life into your ministry.

Holly MillerShank 

Well, thank you so much, Jim. It’s great to be with you and to be in conversation not just with you, but with all of those who are working in transitional ministry. It’s such an important aspect of God’s Church. And I find that when I approach interim ministry or transitional ministry with a sort of sense of awe, of wonder, of openness, of playfulness, that it seems to be a little disarming. It helps to allow people to put their guard down, to be present in the moment, to experience the creativity that’s possible. We certainly worship a God who is a creator and a creative God, when we look out at the universe and all that we experience in the environment and in our lives. And I think as a church, we spend too little time really being in awe of what’s offered to us.

Jim Latimer 

Wow. So, I hear you saying that playfulness is disarming and leads to awe. And so, how for church in transition, in this liminal zone, does that work? Say more about that, if you would.

Holly MillerShank  

Absolutely. I was an interim minister in a congregation in the Midwest where the weather changes, you know, day to day. It’s one of those jokes where it might be sunny in the morning and snowing in the afternoon, and then back to warming up again. So, in my first sermon as their interim Minister, I joked and said, My preaching style is going to be a lot like the weather: you never know what you’re going to get. It may change week to week. And so, what I would do, is some Sundays would be a very traditional from the manuscript academic preaching. Some Sundays would be conversational – out asking people in the congregation for responses. Some Sundays would be bringing in manipulatives, or symbols, or things to hold or to pass around, and a chance to break the monotony, or the routines that may have been established by the previous minister, with an understanding that it’s not clear who the next settled minister will be and what their preaching style will be. 

It’s common for congregants to expect that churches always do church in a particular pattern or way, because they’re not out at different congregations on a Sunday morning experiencing a whole different range of preaching styles. So, I like to bring a sort of playfulness to the preaching style, so that the congregation can experience a variety and sort of be open to whatever style their next settled minister uses as their preferred style.

Jim Latimer 

So, Holly, that’s great! We don’t know each other well, but I can easily see how you are at home, and you have a particular talent around that. You can change, and you’re not overly hung up on what people might think about you, or putting yourself into an area that’s uncomfortable for you and stuff. But a lot of our colleagues are. If I could say that. And since it’s mainly interim ministers, or those thinking of interim ministry, or designated ministry, or whatever, who listen to these Bits of Wisdom interviews – these podcasts – what would you say? 

I mean, I don’t think anybody’s going to argue that playfulness will tend to calm the system, and that when the system is more calm, we tend to make better decisions, right? And making good decisions is essential to a high quality interim time. But what would you say to a colleague – an interim colleague – who, says, I’m not that comfortable – first of all preaching – and with the changing of styles. I can’t quite do that. What would you say to them if they don’t necessarily have a playful style? Because you have a gift for that. It’s obvious. But that’s fairly uncommon.

Holly MillerShank 

I think it’s a good opportunity to say to congregations in times of transition, What if? Why not? And I think just that invitation – maybe not in the preaching style, or maybe it’s just the sort of way in which an interim leader says, We’re not locked in. There’s a God of possibility and a God of hope that’s before us. And we’re there to ask, Hey, why not? What if? Could we? 

I think that openness creates opportunities that the church might not have seen before. I think it’s that posture. I think a lot of it actually comes down to a posture of giving permission – giving permission to dream, to think, to try, to experiment. An opportunity to – I would personally use the phrase: prayerful and playful. That it’s really an engagement in the future – as much as we as interims help our congregation to look back to recognize its patterns, to come to terms with its history – it’s also saying, And now what? I think it’s that openness to not being locked into a particular outcome, but where is the Spirit moving us as part of the process? And to say that there could be lots of joy in that process. It doesn’t need to be a dour experience.

Jim Latimer 

An experience being what? There can be a lot of joy in the experience of…

Holly MillerShank 

Of the interim season. You know, some congregations want to just rush through it and get to the other end and be together with their next settled minister. Some of them want to avoid doing the difficult work and the internal work that needs to be done during an interim. And so, I think that if there’s an invitation to see possibilities and hope and laughter together, that that seems to move the interim process forward with some real optimism that’s not unrealistic. I mean, look at your budget, look at your facts, look at all of those sorts of structural things – but do so in a way that’s open to possibilities.

Jim Latimer 

Yes. You’ve given us a nice, pretty good clean chunk right here. You could entitle it perhaps, What if? Or could we? In this idea about giving permission, what I’m hearing, is that a key to the interim time – to people really taking stock of, Where are we? Where are we going? and all that – is to give them permission. And to do that effectively, the interim pastor has to give him or herself permission to do that. Not only to think it, but to give them permission by modeling it.

Holly MillerShank 

I think it encourages people to think and be with all of the gifts that God has given us. And most of us who are in the profession of ministry have a bit of a heady side to us. It’s a chance to get out of our heads and into our hearts, to be able to use visuals, or music, or just multiple learning styles, because we’re not all cookie cutter. God did not create us that way. And so, if we come into a worshiping space or a community of faith that says, We embrace all of who you are, I think it leads to a better outcome in the future. 

And just one example. I was working with a congregation who was pretty stuck on a lot of words and a lot of data in terms of thinking about who are we, and who is God calling us to be. And so, we said, Alright, we’re just gonna stop for a second. We’re going to flip over our piece of paper, and we’re going to draw what our ideal church would be. And draw it! And you’re going to share your drawing. It opens up fresher space. These tactile things that we could invite people to do might just open up a new lens for the conversation.

Jim Latimer 

That’s great. I think that’s a good place to wrap up this segment. And as I heard you say, Just draw it! And that drawing can draw out a new future – can draw us into more possibilities. That’s really rich. Holly, thank you so much for sharing this and this time. It’s been great.

Holly MillerShank 

Absolutely. It was a gift. Thanks.

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