Why I Wrote: “Only Work Sundays: A Laidback Guide to Doing Less While Helping Your Church Thrive” – Transcript

Jim Latimer

Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for transitional ministry, best practices and quick help – wisdom from the field. I’m your host Reverend Jim Latimer. Today Reverend Liz Miller is joining us. Liz is a millennial UCC minister with depth experience as a settled pastor and now serving in a transitional role as a Designated Term pastor for a church in Connecticut. Liz is one of the most innovative, fun and creative pastors I know. We met a bunch of years ago at what she called clergy camp, an experience she created and facilitated for several years. It was life-giving for me as I always came away with an extra bit of Liz’s playful energy and creative spirit. And when I read her recent book titled, Only Work Sundays: A Laidback Guide to Doing Less while Helping Your Church Thrive, I knew she was on to something. I wanted to learn more and to share her wisdom on this podcast platform. So welcome, Liz. And to start us off, could you speak a little bit about why that book. What compelled you to write it?

Liz Miller

Thanks, Jim. When I started in ministry, I learned how to be a pastor from some pretty phenomenal pastors who came before me, mentors, senior pastors, supervisors. And the thing I noticed with all of them was that their identity and their life was the church. And so, I started to model my ministry after that, thinking, you know, the ideal pastor gives everything they have to their congregation, all of their hours, all of their ideas, all of their passions and interests should be wrapped up in the church. And that was going pretty well for about five years, until I experienced some intense burnout. I didn’t have anything left to give. And during that season of burnout, I sort of took a step back and realized that when I wasn’t insisting on being in the center of everything, the church was still doing just fine. And that was my aha moment that perhaps it does not require all of me or have to be all about me. But perhaps there’s a different way that we could do ministry together as a church. 

Liz Miller

I’m very naturally like, in my personality, I’m a pretty laidback person. I grew up in Southern California and fit all those stereotypes. And so, I had sort of left that at the sanctuary doors when I went to work and I brought that back in with me, and tried to adopt a stance of, What happens if I am more on the sidelines? What happens if I empower other people to be the church together or to live out their gifts? And what if I’m more in the supporting role rather than the core leadership role as a pastor? So, this book came out of my experiments, some of my failures, some of my successes of a more laid-back approach to ministry, pastoring from the sidelines rather than from center court.

Jim Latimer

Wow. That’s such a powerful thing when you describe how you discovered that perhaps you weren’t as – what I heard was – I’m not really as important to this ministry as I thought I was, as my ego needed me to be. I kind of also heard that, but you didn’t say it. Correct me if I misheard you. But that you said it took a crisis for you to realize that.

Liz Miller 

Oh, yeah, definitely. Ego is definitely a pretty big part of it. I think that idea that we are needed and that our identities are wrapped up in being needed, or receiving that approval from our congregants, or from the affirmation that we get when we do it all ourselves is a very hungry beast that needs to constantly be fed and has an increasing appetite. So, learning how to curb that and to find other ways to feed your ego is a lot more stainable.

Jim Latimer 

We’ve all got them, and in this line of work, there are lots of invitations for the ego to lead, but they use God language so it looks like it’s not that way, but it often is. And you told me earlier when we were planning for this, that the title of this book as you described it, is your personal vision for how you show up in a congregation. Could you say a bit more about it being a personal vision? That particularly caught my attention, that phrase.

Liz Miller

Yeah, my vision as a pastor is anytime the congregation or our leadership articulates something, and they really own ideas as their own ideas, or the vision of the church as their vision of the church, I feel like I have done a good job here. When they’re not saying, you know, Pastor Liz says that we should do this, or Pastor Liz has this idea, but rather, you know, if my work has been more about guiding them, about bringing out their ideas, about trying on different things together and helping them take ownership of the directions that they want to move forward, that’s sort of for me my vision of how I can step back and empower the rest of the church to be there. They’re the ones who will be there long after I’m done, no matter how long my tenure is, either them or their children or their memories. So, it’s really important that they are that living embodiment of the church.

Jim Latimer

Yeah. I appreciate what you said there. We often talk about how important it is for the congregation to have a vision statement and be able to articulate it, ideally, in one sentence or two, right? It can change over time. But what is it, right? And there’s the idea that pastors themselves also can have one. But what I’m hearing you say, is the pastor really needs one, because what I heard you say is that earlier in your career, you kind of accepted a personal vision, you didn’t label it that way, you just accepted one that you thought you ought to be doing. It wasn’t one that you had articulated. And when you went through that crisis, it forced you – you accepted its invitation – to articulate specifically for Liz Miller, What’s my personal vision as a pastor? Is that what you said?

Liz Miller

Absolutely! And you know, all of us as pastors, we all have different styles and gifts. And I think, too often we’re trying to fit into, Oh, this is what every good pastor needs to do or be. But there are as many styles of pastors as there are congregations. And we see how powerful it is, when a congregation moves beyond the, We’re nice people! We’re really welcoming! We do good!, to really being able to name the specific impact they have on their communities, or what people will experience when they come in the doors.  As pastors when we’re able to articulate that to a congregation, This is the type of servant leader that I am, or, These are my skills that I can bring to your congregation, or, This is the area where I’m really going to need you to take the lead because it’s not my gift. When we have that vision for ourselves and can name those things, it makes us a lot stronger. This especially true for those who are in transitional ministry who are making more transitions to be able to very quickly say, This is who I am. This is what you will experience working with me. It helps congregations discern the best fit. And it helps you ensure that this next place is going to be meaningful for both of us. Because I’m not trying to be the end all, do all, and be all of pastors.

Jim Latimer

I really appreciate what you said Liz about setting expectations, and how essential that is in any kind of pastor, but maybe especially as a transition pastor, because you’re coming in for a short amount of time, and being able to say this is what I heard you say this is what I’m really good at. And this is where I’m going to need help. This is kind of my “A” skill set. This is like a “B” skill set. And I’m going to need help with that. And you need to know that now, otherwise, you’re going to be disappointed and there’s going to be upset that’s clearly avoidable if we can communicate this now.

Liz Miller

Yes. Every congregation is looking for something different. I am really clear early on in search processes that I take my weekends. I take my time off, and I have hobbies and responsibilities and a whole life outside of the church. And for some congregations they’re like, We don’t like that. And I’m like, Great. I’m not your pastor! And other congregations say, Hey, we have lives outside of the church too, how wonderful! So, whatever it is for you, and there’s always multiple things, but to make sure that you say those clearly, communicate them well, and own them for yourself, not apologizing, but just sort of own, This is who I am.

Jim Latimer

Wow. I think that’s a great place to wrap up this podcast interview – this first one. And so, the answer to the question of, Why did you write the book? is that it’s basically your vision statement, your personal vision statement as a pastor, This is what I do; This is why; These are some outcomes you can expect; and, Don’t look for this, because you’re not gonna get that, but you are gonna get this! and the like. That’s fabulous. Liz, thank you very much.

Liz Miller

Thank you, Jim.