Moving from Burnout to Bonfire – Transcript
Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministry, best practices and quick help – wisdom from the field. I’m your host Reverend Jim Latimer. Today, Reverend Liz Miller is joining us. Liz is a millennial United Church of Christ minister with depth experience as a settled pastor, and now serving in a transitional role as a Designated Term pastor at a church in Connecticut. Liz is one of the most innovative, fun and creative pastors I know. We met a bunch of years ago at Clergy Camp, an experience that she created and facilitated for several years. It was life-giving for me as I always came away with an extra bit of Liz’s playful energy and creative spirit. And when I read her recent book, Only Work Sunday’s: A Laidback Guide to Doing Less while Helping Your Church Thrive, I knew she was on to something, and I wanted to learn more, and to share her wisdom on this podcast platform. So, Liz, welcome. And in this next podcast segment, you had referred to in our conversation beforehand the idea of moving from burnout to bonfire and that caught my attention. I’d love it if you could speak more to that.
Liz Miller
Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Jim. You know, I moved from burnout in ministry about five years in, and try to like, rekindle the flames took some work. Because ideally, you want a bonfire, not just the smoking ashes on the sideline, a bonfire that’s drawing in people, that’s keeping people warm, perhaps you can cook your dinner over it, or gather together for some songs. The bonfire has this really nice image. But if you’ve ever been in a bonfire, you know that it takes a lot of tending to. It changes very quickly if you’re not keeping an eye on it. But you also don’t want to over tend to it. So, it’s about finding this balance, as you’re tending to the fire and finding a rhythm that works for you, to keep it sort of not out of control, but not going out. And for me that’s what ministry feels like in the local church, keeping a close enough eye on things that you are connected and can respond when something needs you, but not being so close to it that you’re totally consumed and absorbed by what’s happening that you can’t respond when there’s a change. We talk a lot about balance in life and in our professional roles, and for me, I’ve come to realize that that balance as an ideal isn’t quite what is really possible.
Jim Latimer
It’s not really possible, right! Okay.
Liz Miller
This idea of perfection that you’re always chasing, but rather, like when I think about the times when I’ve sat around a fire, I don’t know exactly what’s going to happen. I just know that I need to be available, willing to respond, attuned to what the different needs are, have some firewood on hand in case it’s needed, have some helpers nearby. So, instead of balance, it’s more about having an awareness, a willingness to be off kilter a little bit and to just accept that you have to like come and go and move in and move out as needed. But there has to be some flexibility in that. And for me, I found that the more that I actually step back, and am observing or paying attention to what’s happening, rather than being the person who is doing all the work, or feeding the fire, or going to find the firewood and make sure that it’s stacked up, and make sure that it’s seasoned, the more that I can be observing and coaching people or guiding people, the more I’m able to just lean into that flexibility and ensure that we have this like beautiful strong bonfire that’s drawn people in. That’s quite a metaphor that I just delved into!
Jim Latimer
Well, it is. And I love how you speak about burnout, people are talking about that all the time. And a bonfire, of it being bright and a gathering, drawing people in. You don’t want to get too close because you can burn yourself if you’re too close. And yet, you don’t want to get too far away. So, there’s that moving in and moving out. And this idea that you alluded to there, of being off kilter a little bit, right? That you expect that. In fact, that’s a natural expectation of a pastor, being kind of off kilter. You kind of look for that. And if you feel perhaps too balanced, or too smooth, Okay, something’s off kilter, because it shouldn’t be that way.
Liz Miller
If you feel too balanced, the wind is going to change, and all of a sudden, it’s gonna be blowing smoke in your face. So, you have to be prepared and accept that, you know, this was my seat around the fire, but now I need to move positions because there’s smoke coming right in my face, and I can’t breathe at all. That idea of being ready, willing to adjust as needed.
Jim Latimer
We’ve all had that experience sitting around a campfire. You get smoke coming in your eyes, and you move, and it seems like the smoke is following you, kind of like the eyes of the Mona Lisa, no matter you stand, it seems she’s looking at you.
Liz Miller
Yeah! I love campfires. And I always feel like there’s one person around who the smoke is never drawn to, and it’s the person who truly doesn’t care. And is just truly relaxed. That’s who I want to be! It feels like the smoke knows that the more you try to control it, and the more you try to outsmart it, then it’s after you.
Jim Latimer
Oh, wow. You didn’t use the word laidback, but that’s kind of what I heard there in that. And laidback is very different from not paying attention. You can be very much paying attention, but you’re very much in the moment, and laidback in the sense of you’re not holding on tightly to a particular outcome. Right? You’re holding it lightly in your hands. Laidback in that sense, is that right?
Liz Miller
Yes. You have an awareness. You’re present and attuned to it. But you’re also one step removed. And you’re not trying to control everything. I think that campfire image is so great, too, because you can be the person who’s just sitting at the fire. That’s your whole role, to just sit and enjoy and attune to the people. But there’s somebody else who’s going to be sent out to gather sticks when it’s initially getting started, or to make sure that there’s enough logs to keep it going. Somebody else is going to be in charge of like, well, How much time do we have with the supplies that we have? Or, What do we need? There’s someone else who’s going to be in charge of the poker. There’s always the person who’s just poking those logs. So, there’s a different role for everyone to play. And I feel like when you get the chance, as a pastor, to be that person who’s just observing, and watching everyone step into the roles that they like to play, rather than saying, Oh, I’ll go do that, I can get the sticks. And then I’ll get the fire started, and, give me that poker, I know how to do it. So, it’s a real joy to be able to see the community in action together, each person playing their part. So, you’re sort of lightly attuned in the present and aware, but not trying to do it all yourself, and not trying to control everyone else, either.
Jim Latimer
Yeah. That’s a beautiful image, the tender of the fire, if you will. And for that to work, the tender needs to be aware of who does have a bucket of water if we need it? Or who is going to get more wood? Right? So, you have to know who these are, right? And maybe give a nudge here or there, but you’re not going to go get the wood yourself. But you’ve got one or two people in mind that are present or nearby who can do that. So, when you’re trying to do all those things yourself, then you’re scrambling and burned out. The bonfire, the campfire. Yes!
Liz Miller
Yeah, I think that more laidback approach is about being more attuned to the people and their gifts and their possibilities, rather than being attuned to the outcomes – the expectation of a certain outcome.
Jim Latimer
That’s gold! What you said right there really spot on in my experience – more attune to the people than to a particular outcome. And in some organizations, you can’t get away with that, but for pastoral ministry, you can. Certainly, that’s your forte. That’s where you shine. Wonderful Liz. Wow, this is powerful. Thank you so much. I feel, as John Wesley would say, My heart is strangely warmed. Thank you, Liz.
Liz Miller
Thank you.