managing staff challenges with confidence during the interim time – Transcript
Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Reverend Jim Latimer. I’m our host today, and we have with us the Reverend Holly MillerShank. Holly has all kinds of rich experience at various levels in ministry – at the local church level as an interim pastor and as a settled pastor, and also at the judicatory level as an interim person, and also as full-time staff in the national setting of the United Church of Christ. And she has some really good thoughts around managing staff challenges during the interim time. And that’s kind of a hot button. Because as I’ve had these interviews over these many months, I’ve talked to people that have said, No, the interim’s job – don’t do anything with the staff. Your job is not to hire or fire anybody. While others have said, If you think you need to, you better! You better do it! You owe it to those who come after. Anyway, enough of an introduction. So, Holly, we’d love to hear your wisdom around managing staff, or staff challenges as an interim minister.
Holly MillerShank
Well, thanks so much, Jim. It’s a delight to be here with you and to be in conversation with others who are called to the work of transitional ministry. I fall into the camp of it being part of the gift that an interim can give to a congregation to make sure that there is some consistency and some accountability and some shape to the relationship with the church’s staff. I come to this conversation with deep experience. I have had many staffing challenges as an interim minister. My first day at one church, I had a staff member tell me at coffee hour that they were going to quit. I had another staff member in a situation where they were telling the committee with whom they worked one thing, and telling me another, and needing to sort of straighten out, wherein does the truth lie? And how do we come to that in a transparent way? I had a staff member who – it was, well, time to retire and we had to have that conversation. And I’ve also had the incredibly tragic experience of having a staff member pass away while I was an interim, and helping a congregation navigate their grief, and also helping to set up towards the future, What does this look like?
So, I think the staffing experience is never going to be monolithic. It’s not going to be one exact staff experience that we’ll have as interims. And each of the congregations we serve are structured differently. But I do think there are some very routine things that an interim minister can do, so that way when these particular challenges or opportunities arise, that there is a container with which to have the conversation.
Jim Latimer
Holly, let me just pause you there. I love that phrase right there, that part of what transitional interim ministers do – part of our conversation – is to create the container for what’s coming. That’s nice.
Holly MillerShank
So, one of the things I like to do when I’m an interim is to come in, and to do one-on-ones with every staff member – to really listen, to be attentive, to hear their story, to hear their anxieties, because in a time of transition, staff hold a lot of anxieties. To hear their hopes. I also think it’s essential to create regular ongoing staff meetings – whatever form that takes – if that is in person, on Zoom, once a week or once a month. There is a time for the entire staff to be present to one another to hear about the work that each of them is doing, and even just things as simple as reviewing the calendar together, and looking ahead. And I think those are the sort of opportunities where once someone knows that that’s both an accountability and an opportunity to be in connection as a whole, it helps solidify the relationship as staff members.
I also think it’s really important as the interim to look and see if job descriptions actually exist for the different staff members. Because some places they do and some places they don’t. And occasionally when they do exist, they’re not accurate. So, it’s an opportunity to say, How much of what’s on this piece of paper is realistic to how you spend your time as a part of this staff community in this community of faith?
The other piece that is essential in this is not just the pastor’s relationship with those who are paid staff, but also the relationship with whatever governance structure is in place. Because bringing on a Personnel Committee, or making sure that the church council, or whoever has those responsibilities, is empowered and effective, is a real gift to the next minister coming in. That there’s at least some groundwork that’s been laid.
And I have found in a few of the places where I have served as an interim, that there’s a real difficulty, or maybe the word is – I’m leaning towards confusion – I’m not sure that’s the right word, but that the staff don’t have a good sense of to whom are they accountable. Are they accountable to the minister? Are they accountable to the Chair of whatever committee they most often connect with? Where do they go when there’s a problem? Or, who in the system sets the priorities for the year? And most staff don’t have that as a gift, and I think all of us work better when we know what we’re expected to do.
Jim Latimer
And not only that, without clarity about reporting like that, there can’t be a clean performance evaluation – not like giving them a grade, but giving them feedback in the context of agreed upon goals and expectations that are explicitly agreed upon. And, do you have a thought – if I could just ask – in terms of a staff person reporting to a committee versus reporting to an individual person?
Holly MillerShank
I think it’s much more effective to report to an individual person. I’ve worked in several places that are large enough, where the pastor is head of staff, that there are multiple staff relationships. I think the difficulty is when a committee as a whole is the body to whom a staff person is accountable, there’s a greater possibility of triangulation. There’s a greater possibility that no one actually takes authority. And that those committees tend to change with such frequency, that it’s hard to have consistency.
Jim Latimer
Thank you, for your opinion on that. I happen to agree with you. But I know there are many congregations where, in the quote, unquote, Christian Education area, it’s very common for that person to report to the Christian Education Committee. Or, in another church I served, the Minister of Music reported to the Music Committee. I was there as an interim, and thinking, How is this? It turned out that the long-time settled pastor who had who had left – and been there a long time – toward the beginning of his ministry, he declared, I don’t want to manage staff. And just said, I’m not going to do this. And they said, Okay. So, they had the staff reporting to various committees. But then of course, over time, that creates complications.
Holly MillerShank
And I think it’s important that the communication avenues within any church structure or system are clear so that folks know where we’re headed, and not just doing things because, you know the phrase, We’ve always done them. But if there are some themes that the church wants to highlight and work towards during the interim year, how are we all working towards those shared goals – those shared themes in our ministry? And the more diffuse a leadership structure is, the less likely you can see tangible benefits of naming a particular goal or theme or aspect of the church’s life that you’d like everyone to be a part of during the church year.
Jim Latimer
Yes. Wow. That’s great. Well, this is a good place to stop, and I know that you are going to do one more segment after this, which is a situation where a staff person is also a church member. That’s a special context. But for here, I’d loved your specific tips around having one-on-ones with each staff member, ongoing staff meetings, clear job descriptions, and a clear leadership structure. All of those things help not only teamwork and strength of the staff so they can learn from each other and support each other, but they enable the system to create goals that are mutually understood in a similar way and to move forward. Wow, that’s great. So, Holly, thank you so much for this. It’s rich.