How Long is Right for the Interim Time? – Transcript

Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Reverend Jim Latimer and I have the pleasure of having with us today Reverend Dr. Jonathan New. Jonathan has been around the block many times with interims of all shapes and sizes. The other day we were talking about how long should an interim ministry be. He said that would make a great topic for our upcoming interview. So Jonathan, if you would speak to that, I’d love it.

Yes, sure. These are just my thoughts from my experience, and this is the question we always get when we’re interviewing with churches. They want to know how long it’s going to be. Usually they’re in some state of anxiety about moving on, right? I usually tell them that it’s going to take as long as we need in order to do the work that we need to do together. But when I’m really pressed what I will usually say is that it could be as little as 14 months. That might be possible if things are really moving well and there aren’t any major issues that are coming up for us. But really, I’m going to say 18 months is what I would sort of pin as the time that seems to me to make most sense when things are going relatively smoothly in terms of meeting those those key interim goals for the congregation. I will also say that I have had now half of my interims, three or more actually, that have been 24 months or longer. Those came usually following the departure of a long tenured retiring pastor.

So there are some things that will affect the length of time. Coronavirus will do this too. Many of us are experiencing this now. But there are other kinds of issues that will pop up such as significant conflict in the congregation, or really difficult money matters to be addressed, or issues with deferred maintenance. Or sometimes particular projects that we all agree at the beginning we want to undertake, such as the possibility of a capital campaign, for example. In another segment we’ll talk about that. Ideally, I want to say that the interim work together should begin before a search committee and or a transition team is selected and begins its work. So my preference is always that I arrive before those things have happened so I can have some positive influence on the process from the beginning.

So it’s helpful to think about what the work of the interim time is for the congregation. So helping them ask and answer three core questions during the in between time: who are we? – those are those questions of identity and core values and bedrock norms and beliefs and norms; and who is our neighbor? – those are questions of demographics and things like alignment of the church community’s hopes and hurts and talents and whatever with the gifts and graces of the congregation meeting the needs of the community that it’s in. And also, what is God calling us to do and to be? – so here we’re talking about questions of purpose and mission and vision and planning as well. So I think the key thing here to remember is that we are not just gathering data, writing up the results for a church profile, or the like, and setting the search committee loose to engage candidates on the congregation’s behalf. That’s not the only thing we’re doing here.

Overall, the work is congregational discernment, and that by its nature is a process. So rushing the process defeats the purpose of the interim period. So helping that congregation take its next most faithful step with a new pastoral leader – that’s the purpose of the interim time as I see it. And so I think context is key. Lots of things will be the same for all congregations. So for example, looking at the church and the community’s demographics, that’s going to be staying the same for every congregation. But most things will differ from church to church. So for example, how the congregation engages the demographic data that’s collected, answering the questions, What does this mean for us? Who are we? Who is our neighbor? What is God calling us to do and to be if these things are true about us demographically as a congregation, or demographically as a community. So the bottom line for me is that there simply isn’t a cookiecutter approach to interim ministry, it’s time, or the things that we do within the context of it. The length of time and the process of asking and answering those key questions, as well as dealing with any specific major challenges in the life of the church is always going to vary. And I think it should. As interims we can have a general game plan for how we’re going to get the congregation going on these key questions and other specific matters, but it is important that we don’t let the plan get in the way of the goals and objectives that we have before us.

Jim Latimer
So I love what you’re saying here around how it’s really about discernment – helping or leading the congregation in discerning, right? So therefore, things that rush thoughtful engagement of mind and spirit aren’t healthy for the process, and if they are not healthy for the process, then they’re not going to be healthy for what the process leads to. Right?

Jonathan New
Yes. So here I think what we’re really talking about is the art of interim ministry. There are lots of skills to bring to bear, lots of perspectives to bring to bear and lots of tools to bring to bear. But I also think there is an art to interim ministry when it’s done best that is attuned to the use of all those things, but always in the service of the goals and objectives of the interim time.

Jim Latimer
Yes. I like that. So in the last minute here, as succinctly as you can, in your own mind for your own way of embodying this art, how do you know that your time with a particular church is about done? What are one or two little things that tell you this?

Jonathan New
I think the major thing is that I start hearing those who I’m serving saying some of the things that have come to me as awarenesses about the congregation. And saying it as if I never said it before. Does that make sense?

Jim Latimer
It does. So in other words, they experience it as a discovery for themselves and an insight they saw.

Jonathan New
Exactly! The best possible teaching is always the type where the learner is coming to that place of realization for themselves. And if there is a teaching aspect to interim ministry, I think it is done best when we are giving the learner the opportunity to come to those realizations themselves.

Jim Latimer
Right, then they have full ownership for it. That’s a perfect way to stop. Ownership is what we want them to have because we’re going to leave and we want them to have ownership for where they are and why they got to where they are.

Jonathan New
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jim Latimer
Thank you for sharing your time and wisdom with us. This was great.

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