Using a Laidback Approach As a First-Time Transition Minister – Transcript
Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for transitional ministry, best practices and quick help – wisdom from the field. I am your host Reverend Jim Latimer. Today Reverend Liz Miller is joining us. Liz is a millennial United Church of Christ minister with depth experience as a settled pastor, and now serving in a transitional role as a Designated Term pastor for a church in Connecticut. Liz is one of the most innovative, fun and creative pastors I know. We met a bunch of years ago at “clergy camp,” as she called it. It was an experience she created and facilitated for several years. It was life-giving for me, as I always came away with an extra bit of Liz’s playful and creative spirit and energy. And when I read her recent book titled, “Only Work Sundays: A Laidback Guide to Doing Less while Helping Your Church Thrive,” I knew she was onto something. I wanted to learn more and to share her wisdom on this podcast platform. So. Liz, in this next podcast, this series that we’re doing right now, as a first-time transitional minister, which in your current post you are, how is your laidback ministry approach, as you as you phrase it, how’s it going? What are some of the challenges and gifts that you’re experiencing?
Liz Miller
Thanks for asking, Jim. I think it’s a little bit of a misnomer, transitional ministry, because churches are always in transition. We’re constantly are saying goodbye to people. We’re welcoming people in. We’re starting new initiatives. We’re ending things. I’ve come to realize that transitional ministry in a church in transition feels very similar to a settled position, but it’s a lot more honest about the transitions that are happening there at the forefront, rather than in the background. And so, that was my first observation, which means that the traps of, you know, filling holes that have been created by a pastor’s departure, or wanting to solve the problems that have been raised in the transition and say, Oh, I’ve got the perfect answer for that! Or, I’ve got, you know, 10 ideas that you could do! And because it’s time limited, that feeling that urgency of, We’ve got to get moving!
Liz Miller
And the fastest way to get moving is if I just do it myself! I’ve been feeling that – those traps, those sand traps that we can get caught in in transitional ministry. So, I try to stay on the sidelines. That’s part of my vision of equipping and empowering people. And I think, in this transitional season, that has become even more important, because the gaps that I’m seeing are the places where the previous pastors did claim something for themselves, or did own it, rather than the congregation. And so, I hear the congregation saying, Well, Pastor, so and so always used to do that. Or, That was their vision. Or, That’s what they liked. Or, They introduced that to us. And so, instead of saying, well, Here’s how I like to do it, I’m trying to ask questions back, Well, what did you like about that? Or, what would you change? Or, how? What was the meaning for that? Was that meaningful for you?
Liz Miller
So, a lot of questioning, and a lot of helping the congregation reframe. It’s not about changing everything that they’ve ever done. But reframing that ownership so that if something’s continuing, or if they want to grow something that they’ve been doing or start something new, that it’s really coming from them, not just stepping in another line of, Our transitional pastor told us we had to… Or, They said that… The most important thing was constantly reframing, bringing them into the center, listening to their ideas and helping empower them to take ownership of who they are, what they want to do, and what their vision for the church is.
Jim Latimer
Wow. That’s powerful, Liz. What I’m hearing you describe then is, as transitional minister, one of your main jobs, perhaps your main job, is to help them reframe familiar topics, familiar issues, familiar ministries. It’s sort of like when you go to an art museum – I love to go to art museums – and often in some of the larger salons, or rooms, there’s a bunch of doors, different doors, right? You come in from the east, the west and north and south. And depending on which door you come in, you’ll see a particular wall, maybe a big Titian tableau or something. And I’ll go right up to that. And if I had come in a different door, I would see something else. But it’s the same room! And helping them be aware, then, I heard you say, be aware of what they’ve been focused on, what particular aspect of this larger ministry they’ve been kind of focused on, And if I can say, Well, there are other ways to look at this, including, Maybe it’s time to let it go and make room for something else. Right?
Liz Miller
Sure. They’re listening to each other to tell, What door did you come in through in that room? What was your experience of that? I think one of the most fascinating things for me after transition is to hear the dozen different perspectives on every single issue of how they came to have this, or, why this is important, or why this isn’t important. So, a lot of that is getting them talking and listening to each other. Because even things where they say, Oh, we’ve been doing this for 30 years! There’s going to be different understandings of the value and the meaning of that, or how it should continue, or how it should shift. And so, I love that art museum idea of, do they know what doors they each came in from? And do they know what paintings they are looking at, or what direction they’re looking at, or what details they’re seeing, rather than assuming we all came in through the same door, and this is what that means? So, it’s a lot of listening and drawing out and helping church folks listen to each other as well.
Jim Latimer
I appreciate what you said there of helping them connect the door that they came in with their experience of this – and connect those two. Whether it’s as a new person, whatever it is, but connecting their experience with the congregation with what’s happening with how they’re feeling now, or what they’re willing to do now, or what they’re grieving.
Liz Miller
Yeah. I think it’s something that gets dropped often in congregations. I think about when my wife and I go to the art museum, we’ll spend some time together, and then we wander off and come back. And then we’ll sit somewhere at the end of the day, and maybe over a meal and say, What were your favorite paintings? Oh, I didn’t even notice that! Or, We both love this one! Or what did you notice in it? And to have those times of reflection. It’s about planning the next thing or making decisions, but are we really coming together and reflecting on what we’re noticing, what we’re experiencing, and just having those deeper conversations that are not outcome driven, that are not decision driven, but are just about getting a fuller understanding of all those different perspectives in our midst, and what different people are experiencing, or what different people are bringing with them.
Jim Latimer
Yes. Nice. That’s a good place to wrap up here. And my original question was about your laidback perspective or style, and as you embody that, one of the things that I’m hearing it allows you to do, and clearly you do really well, is you’re able to pay attention to things that the congregation, individuals, what they get joy from, that may not be what you get joy from. And so, you’re able to pull out their joys, help them see what they are, even though it might not be yours, right? It’s not that yours aren’t important, but yours, as the pastor, aren’t the main thing. It ought to be theirs.
Liz Miller
Yeah. You know, one way that I’ve done that in my current congregation is at our council meetings every month, there’s a pastor’s report, and I write something typically, and then can talk about it. But instead of talking about what I’ve written, I’ve used that time each month to ask them a question, Can you tell me about? Or, I’m curious about this part of the past, or, I’m curious about what you all have experienced. And it’s led to discussions that aren’t a part of the agenda, but are really helping our leaders and me go deeper in our ministry together and get clear about who we are, our identity, and our mission, and the work that is ahead of us just by sort of seeding some of my time and drawing them in.
Jim Latimer
And recognizing that they have a different listening for each other. Something will sink in if they hear it from their pal, Bob, that won’t sink in if they hear it from the pastor.
Liz Miller
Absolutely!
Jim Latimer
That’s beautiful, Liz. I think your current church is lucky to have you.
Liz Miller
I hope so, and I’m lucky to have them.
Jim Latimer
That’s good. Okay. Thank you so much for this great segment.