What is the Value of Having an Intentional Interim Minister? – Transcript
Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Reverend Jim Latimer and I have the distinct pleasure of having with me today – with us today – Reverend Cindy Mueller. Cindy has been in ministry a long time – about 34 years. And during that time she served 10 interim ministry pastorates, so she has a lot of experience around interim ministry. I asked her if she would particularly speak in this segment to the value of having an interim Minister, because some congregations wonder, Do we need an interim minister? Can’t we just have pulpit supply for a while? She has some wisdom to share about that. Cindy, I’d love it if you would speak to that a bit. What’s the value of having an interim minister if you’re speaking to the congregation?
Cindy Mueller
Thanks, Jim. I often find in the midst of interviews, that churches are not really prepared to interview interims, that they’ve thrown together subcommittee who has been asked to bring somebody in because their minister is leaving. Some of the things that I’ve found valuable to make sure they understand is that there isn’t a cookie cutter approach to interim ministry. When I go into a church (as an interim), after I’ve been there for a couple of months and been able to assess the situation, it’s then that I would be able to answer that question. Rather than say, I’m first going to do this, and then I’m going to do that, the reality is that every congregation has its own gifts, its own styles, its own traditions. Interim ministry activities have to fit in to that particular location and their traditions and norms. So my experience has taught me that many congregations are very capable of designing their own very creative approaches and activities that engage their larger congregation in the midst of the work that an interim helps guide them through. What I’ve also found is aiding a congregation and being able to discern what God is doing in their midst at the moment, that’s a part of the assessing of who they are, which, of course, is a part of the UCC Local Church Profile, that they need to better understand how it is. I was mentioning to a search committee the other day, that I spend a lot of time asking “why” questions at the beginning of an interim time. Because one, I don’t know how they function. I don’t make assumptions. So they need to tell me. But I’ve also found that when I ask the question, they often don’t know how to respond. They don’t know those patterns within their own congregation and the way they do things, and the rationale behind it. So sometimes it reveals an assumption that they’ve had for years and years and years, and they realize it’s outdated. And right there, it opens up the possibility that maybe we need to look at things differently. Or maybe we need to experiment with things during this interim time. So that in fact, you can answer the question and feel good about what that says about your church. Or work on a way to change it.
Jim Latimer
Cindy, let me just stop you for a moment. I love what you said right there around every being a different context. And yet, it’s often easy to forget that. Therefore, any interim ministry is going to be different. It’s going to look different even though some of the same questions are asked. It’s going to look different in every single setting. So sometimes when local local church leadership says, “I don’t think we need an interim,” probably what they’re rejecting – I’m thinking – is that they’re rejecting something they heard in or about some other church which may not even apply to them, because it’s a different context. Is that a little bit maybe of what you’re saying?
Cindy Mueller
Yes. And besides, sometimes I’ve come in as the second interim. And for whatever reason, that person (the first interim minister) didn’t stay throughout the entire search, or was let go. And the assumption is that I’m going to function just the way that person functioned. And so obviously, our own personalities and styles come into it. And it’s another thing that we need in the interviewing process is to help them understand how we approach this. And what’s important to make sure is being accomplished during an interim time. One of the most important things I’ve found is to help a subcommittee of the governing board, or whomever is interviewing me, is that in the busyness of our lives, you don’t take the time to really pause and determine who we are, and how we do things, why we do things, and if it’s the best thing for the church today, or will continue to be the best thing to do in the future. And so it’s another reason why a trained interim can come in and help them do things they wouldn’t have taken the time to do otherwise. And because of the anxiety level that’s present during an interim time, it addresses the need to say, Yes, there is work to do. And bringing that calm, self-differentiated presence in the midst of it to say, We’re going to be intentional about this. And so it’s really inviting them to create a sacred space to discover and rediscover what God is trying to tell them, especially in leading them forward. So it’s my favorite phrase, and I don’t know where I got it, because I did not author it, but that an interim time is pregnant with possibilities. And it’s really a wonderful time to realize the blessings, the strengths that a congregation has. That’s a shift that I have made, even during my interim time is realizing – initially it was assess the situation, analyze it, and then fix it – and I don’t find that very helpful anymore. In fact, it was an incredible burden when I first started interim ministry. And now I’ve realized a better approach is by utilizing Appreciative Inquiry, and really trying to get them to tap into the strengths that they’ve had over the years know and see a new way of taking those strengths into a new future.
Jim Latimer
Yes! Cindy, let me pause you there, because some really rich stuff is tumbling out fast here. I want to flag it for our listeners. Number one, there are simply ministers that can come serve during the interim time, and then there are trained, intentional interim ministers. And those are different things, right? The trained interim minister has interim specific training like you have, and like I have. And one of the things that the trained interim minister has the skills to do is to help the congregation through the anxiety that naturally comes with a pastoral transition. If a long-time pastor has retired, what is life like without this person? Maybe there was some conflict. And so there’s a lot of anxiety, and a trained interim minister can help a congregation relax, help the anxiety level go down, and when the anxiety level goes down, then they can think more clearly. And when they think more clearly, in the guidance of a trained interim minister, they can begin to look for the strengths and the many pluses that are surely there, but they can’t when there’s a lot of anxiety in the system. And when they can see those strengths and really recognize them and hold them up through Appreciative Inquiry, like you said, then they’re moving forward. Did I put too many words in your mouth?!
Cindy Mueller
No. You didn’t. And I’m thinking of one church, following a beloved pastor, and that anxiety of, We will never find anyone like X! How can we survive without that previous pastor? Or the church that has dealt with a great deal of conflict, and, How are we ever going to move forward? And, Why are we wasting our time – that’s generally an attitude I find – that we would take an intentional interim instead of just getting through this right away? Rather, they could really mining the gold that’s there, and seeing that as a strength on which to make them a stronger congregation in the future. So, whether it’s their own conflict, whether it’s ministerial misconduct, or conflict between groups in the church, or between the former pastor and a group in the church, whatever the case might be, it really can be a time where they learn and grow in their faith and their belief in their church, if they take the time to do that and they have somebody who’s got the skill set to help them, versus the person who can come in and preach, lead worship, do funerals, etc. And of course, as interims, we all do everything a regular minister does, but we have to do a number of things on top of it. And that’s where the special skill set of a trained interim comes in.
Jim Latimer
Yes. So that’s kind of a red flag, as we wrap up here in this segment – a red flag that I’ve seen, and clearly you have too with congregations, is when they’re in the interim time, or if they’re approaching it due to an upcoming pastoral retirement, or something, and they’re getting really nervous, and they just want to get through it. Let’s just get through this and to the next step! “Just get through it” – that’s a red flag. So wait, slow down, there’s a lot of gold and a lot of beauty that you’re going to miss if the attitude is, Let’s just get through it! And trust the Holy Spirit. And again, a trained interim will help them do that. And will help them in ways that they can’t quite imagine now. That’s part of where the trust comes in. They probably haven’t worked with a skilled trained interim in a long time. And you know, we’re not all perfect, right? We make our mistakes, too. There’s no doubt about that. But by and large, our colleagues, as I know them, they’re pretty good.
Cindy Mueller
If an interim time has done well, it can create an atmosphere that brings about and sustains a congregation’s health. I think that’s what we all would hope for, no matter what interim we’re serving.
Jim Latimer
Well, that’s a perfect place to end this segment, that a good interim time – it’s all about helping the congregation be healthy as it lives into its future. Being healthy – that’s beautiful. Thank you so much, Cindy, for your time and wisdom on this.
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