Assessing & Evaluating the Congregation: Categories of Things to Look For – Transcript

Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Reverend Jim Latimer and I have the joy of having with me today, Reverend Dr. Jonathan New. Jonathan is a savvy and experienced interim minister. I invite you to look at his bio for more of his wonderfulness. So Jonathan, in this first segment, what would you like to speak to us about?

Jonathan New
I want to talk about assessing and evaluating the congregation in the role as an interim minister. I see one of the most important things about this work is to better understand the congregation of course, and to help it increase its own self understanding. As you know, there is some basic research that’s got to be done – data about things like active membership and participation, giving records and budgets, as well as mission and outreach efforts that are supported and engaged in by the congregation. And also through a few different methods, I’m usually exploring the congregation’s core governing principles, what we might call the congregation’s DNA. Those are things like its self perception, its values, its commitments, its beliefs. And then I’m also looking for evidence of how it exists in the world. So I’m thinking about those unstated but guiding norms that are present in it – the established life ways that form the patterns of how it tends to respond, as well as the specific practices that it engages in as a congregation.

So all those things are different ways I think about self understanding for the congregation, and my understanding of the congregation. And of course, there are different ways you’re going to gather that information. There are great congregational survey tools, such as the Hartford Institute’s tool, or the Holy Cow’s congregational assessment tool. And that’s all great. I’ve also found Appreciative Inquiry, generally, as an approach that’s extremely helpful to this process of coming to better understanding of the church, and the church’s increasing understanding of itself. And then, of course, engaging church members in that kind of a process helps with its own process of self exploration and, self understanding.

So that’s all really good. But I will also say that after six or so interims now, I don’t think there’s any one assessment tool that’s necessarily the best. And I think the context might determine what can be used best, and when it can be used, and how it can be used. So we want to be paying attention to that. But I will say this, no matter what lens I am using, I’m usually paying attention to basically five key features of church life. One of those has to do with empirical facts. For example, things like facilities issues, or attendance level, or the demographics of the congregation, or the community that it’s in. But I’m also looking at some things like behaviors: how well does the church follow through on the initiatives that it starts, right? Where does it over function or not function particularly well? So looking at some of those behaviors as well. Another thing I tend to look at would be what I would call orientation – its orientation – the primary focus of church member activities, or how it thinks about itself in relation to its community. Is it service oriented or not? So I tend to think about orientation as well. And then I’m looking at some rather specific qualities. For example, how it responds to change, how willing is it to enter into positive change, or at least change of some kind. And then fifthly, would be something I think that often gets overlooked, but is critically important and that is feelings. Feelings! Here I’m thinking about the extent to which sadness is existing in the congregation, or joy, whether there’s pride there, whether there’s anger, whether there’s disillusionment, etc. So paying attention to those things. And often because when we don’t pay attention to those things, it seems to me that we are missing the obstacles to transition that will get in the way. So those key things empirical facts, behaviors, orientation, qualities and feelings.

Jim Latimer
So let me stop you, Jonathan. I’m writing these down – so empirical facts, number one. What was the second one again?

Jonathan New
Behaviors – how the congregation actually behaves. Like, it gets excited about something, and it starts off on that project, but then it doesn’t finish it, or it just kind of fizzles out. That would be an example of a behavior.

Jim Latimer
Perfect. Empirical facts, behaviors, and the third one was?

Jonathan New
Orientation – how it orients itself to the world: is it outward looking, or is it inward looking? That would be a major orientation.

Jim Latimer
As you’re speaking here, I’m thinking that like people, congregations have personalities don’t they? Is it more introverted? Does it tend to follow through on something? On the Myers Briggs is it a real “J” and like to wrap things up? Or is it that it doesn’t pay too much attention to the passage of time and just kind of goes with the flow? So empirical facts, behaviors, orientation, and the fourth one was?

Jonathan New
Some qualities about it. An example of this is how it tends to respond to issues of transition and change. Is it open to those things? Is it closed to them? Is it resistant? Is it able to embrace possibilities? Those kinds of things. That’s just one quality. We could name other kinds of qualities.

Jim Latimer
And then the fifth one was feelings. And because in an earlier conversation you had said to me – it’s still in my mind- beware of coming in with a mindset of “I’ll just run my recipe.”

Jonathan New
Yeah, right. And I do want to talk about that at greater length in another segment. But I will just pause here and say that yes, it’s very easy to get stuck with a kind of a recipe that for doing things. And of course, having a plan is a good idea.

Jim Latimer
And yet, we need some guiding points. And that’s what these are. This is not a recipe, but some guiding points. That’s very helpful. As we kind of conclude here, is there something else that you want to really say on this one?

Jonathan New
Yeah, I might say a little bit more about this in another segment, but there are basically a dozen key things about a church that I tend to look at. I’m looking at finances and facilities and issues around that. I’m looking at things like visitors and how they are treated, whether they come back, are they invited – that kind of thing. I’ll say some more about this in another segment. But things like communication, and conflict. And depending on how all of these things are assessed, we might be looking at signs of vitality, or we might be looking at what we might call warning signs that may speak to a church’s life now or in the future. And I would just conclude by saying this. This kind of assessment that we’re doing isn’t exhaustive. It’s not scientific. It’s not diagnostic. It’s not prescriptive. It’s all grist for the mill. And just making it possible for that grace to be generated is part of what we are doing. And equally important, it forms the basis of constructive conversation with church leaders in the context of pastoral and other transitions.

Jim Latimer
That’s a beautiful ending. I love that, because what I’m hearing you say too, is that your style, and what you’re recommending, is that as interim ministers, we’re trained to come in and ask questions and be curious. And by following just kind of general topics, you’re bringing them and training them also to be curious about things that they probably haven’t been curious about for quite a while. And yet, it’s that curiosity and questioning that, if we get them thinking and behaving in that way, we’re growing their leadership capacity that will be there after we leave as an ministers.

Jonathan New
Absolutely. And as we know, self discovery is a process for enormous growth and satisfaction. It can also be quite challenging and painful. So being willing to be with them in the midst of all that is critical as well.

Jim Latimer
Thank you so much, Jonathan. This is really rich.

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