Setting Expectations: ‘What Do You Want Me to Do During the Interim Time? – Transcript

Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers: best practices and quick help from interims, for interims – wisdom from the field. My name is Reverend Jim Latimer and I have the pleasure of speaking with my friend, Reverend Philomena Hare. Philomena, what topic would you like to speak to us about today?

Philomena
Oh, Jim, we are going to talk about expectations. Because if we don’t get that right, there’s a good chance that things will begin to go downhill. So when I say expectations, I mean, for anybody who has been in the workplace – when you have a job and your employer has certain expectations, and you as the employee have expectations…that’s how it is in the marketplace. And it’s that way in ministry too. So my advice during the interview would be not to be shy about asking, “What are your expectations? How do you see me as your interim pastor using this time?” It doesn’t matter if it’s full-time, three-quarters time, or part-time, there are still expectations. And because your time is limited – it has a beginning, a middle and an end – there’s not a whole lot of dead time. You need to be able to be on the same page as quickly as you can, so that the work can be done. And because we are broken people living in a fallen world, things sometimes don’t turn out the way that we expect them to. So I, the interim minister, may have one set of expectations based on my experience, my training – you might have just come back from interim ministry training and you’re all excited and know all the lingo – and the congregation is looking at you like, “Huh? Our past? Our legacy? History of vision? What is that?” So my advice would be if you find that there’s a misalignment, you can regroup – whoever the governing body is, a committee, or the trustees, or the Council, whoever it is – gather the group together earlier rather than later so that those disappointments don’t find their way into conflict and gossip.

Jim Latimer
If you would excuse me, Philomena, what you said there was all good, but that last part was particularly good about if there are disappointments on either side, right? And how that’s probably a sign of a misalignment of some kind, or of a missed expectation. Is that is that true?

Philomena
As it relates to the position, yes. I mean with breathing humans, so yes, disappointment. But I was speaking in that specific way about, “What do you want me to do during this interim time?” And, so then, if it turns out that the congregation, based on their understanding of what interim ministry is and what an interim minister does, if their understanding is, “We’re looking for someone to preach on Sunday, do pastoral visitations and attend deacons meetings and a few other meetings…” If that’s all you’re hearing from them, then I would say, you need to have a serious conversation with the leadership. Because you don’t want find yourself wanting more for the congregation than the congregation wants for itself.

Jim Latimer
Oh, that’s perfect. That’s a great way to say it. That’s a bit of a trap for an interim, isn’t it? Sometimes we want more for them than they want for themselves. So what would you say to that interim who has that light coming on in her mind, “Oh, maybe I’m wanting more for them than they want for themselves?” What would you say to that interim person who now has that little light that might have gone on in his head or her head?

Philomena
There are several things. And you should probably be doing them all together. You should have a group of other interims that you meet with faithfully, religiously. Put that on your schedule. Because maybe it is real, or maybe it isn’t, but it’s good to just say it out loud, if nothing else. And by having such a group, it helps you not to bleed over the congregation. You have your colleagues. You’ve got your peers. They understand. And they may not necessarily be offering you advice, and it may not be what you need, but you do need the support. And then again, test it out. Talk with with the leadership in the congregation, “This is what I’m sensing…” You know, say it in your own words, or in language that the congregation would understand. Sometimes we speak “clergyspeak,” and they don’t understand what we’re saying.

Jim Latimer
Good. So clarify. Be specific. Be gentle. Don’t use “clergyspeak.” Use words they understand. You can tell what those words are by listening to how they talk about their church. That’s where you get that vocabulary from. Nice. Is there anything else that you would say to that person, or anything else in general on this segment right now?

Philomena
Well, the other piece of the expectations issue is that I would want to be clear in my mind that the congregation really wants an interim. And by that I mean that they are committed to using that transition time to be in – how shall I say this – to really be in conversation with the Holy Spirit. Because the work of the interim is not – in my mind – to prepare the congregation for the settled pastor. The primary work of the interim, as I see it, is to the ready the congregation to accept, to receive, after having discerned where the spirit is leading them. And so by extension, then, if that all comes together, then they’re ready for the settled pastor to lead them. But I hear the talk a lot about the interim’s job being to get them ready for the minister, but really, you’re getting them ready for their mission, for their ministry. And that clarity of mission – with no wobbling or back and forth – helps the search committee to craft the profile, which will then lead to the person that God has already walked ahead of them and prepared to come and serve with them.

Jim Latimer
I love how you brought in this strong spiritual discernment piece, because we interims talk a lot about our main job being to help prepare the congregation for its next settled pastor, which is true. But that’s almost a secular statement as well. We’re in ministry as Christians. It’s a faith community in ministry. We are primarily about God, God’s presence and how God moves in this world. That was a beautiful piece there. Thank you so much Philomena for sharing your wisdom with us and your spiritual power. It’s great.

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