Why I use ‘Transition’ in my title – Transcript
Jim Latimer
Welcome to Coaching for Interims. We are about empowerment for interim ministers, best practices and quick help from interims for interims – wisdom from the field. I’m your host Reverend Jim Latimer. Today, we have the pleasure of having with us Reverend Dr. Todd Yonkman. Todd is a savvy and seasoned intentional transition minister. He’s done a lot, and he’s written books about this. So, I was excited to have his ideas into this Bits of Wisdom project. So, Todd, in this first piece, I know you like to use “transition” in your title, and I would invite you to speak a little bit about why that particular word? What does that bring to the table for you?
Todd Yonkman
I came to the word “transition” from a couple of different places. One was in a previous search process, in which I saw that there was a ministry opportunity that was advertised as Transitional Minister. And I just thought that that was a very sort of interesting title. And it resonated with something that I had learned about in the Interim Ministry Network training that I had done. We had talked about transition, One of the assignments was to read William Bridges’ classic book, Transitions, and he has a follow up on that. Those are already classics. And so, this idea of transition really captured me in the way that Bridges frames it – it starts with an ending. And then there is a wilderness time. And then it ends with a new beginning, which I thought was a very catchy and clever way to think about the work. I was just talking about this with a group from a church last night. I really view interim as one type of transition. But I really see transition as a much bigger project – that the church that was, is not the church, that will be. And when I think about transition in those terms, I see that I’ve had a number of different titles – “settled” and “solo” and “senior pastor,” but all of them – my whole career – have been transitional in the sense that the church that I arrived at was not the same church that I left for a whole bunch of different reasons. So, I like framing that upfront, because that helps to set a direction, and a set of expectations around the work that I do with congregations,
Jim Latimer
Eloquently said, Todd, and I appreciate it. I was about to mention the “expectation” word as a summary of what you just said, and you used it, because that’s what I heard. What you’re saying – and resonates with my experience – is that when we as pastors with whatever label we have, if we have expectations that are significantly different than the congregation we’re serving, things are going to go south. I like what you also said that using the term “transition” – getting that on the table at the very beginning – kind of sets the frame from the get-go, to use your words from an earlier conversation we had, and that it’s a way of making explicit upfront that the church that was is not the church that will be. That’s sweet. So, when you set expectations like that, how else does that serve your ministry?
Todd Yonkman
It serves in that transition is a change process. And that change of any type always involves loss. Even if it’s a change that we desire or that we’re pointing to. One of the great questions that I’ve learned in my coaching training was, What are you willing to let go of to get what you most want? And so, framing the expectation around transition means that we’re letting people know upfront, that there’s going to be some grief involved, and that it’s going to be work. Another image that I like to use around transition, is that as a transitional minister, my role is one of a midwife. So, I’m coming in, I’m saying, The church that was is not the church that will be. But I don’t know exactly what the church – what this church to be – will be! And probably we have some ideas together. But in most successful transitions, none of us really knows. Really, all we’re doing is we’re kind of creating space for this new thing to happen.
Todd Yonkman
So, God is going to bring about a birth of something new. We don’t know exactly what it’s going to be. My role is the midwife. So, this is your baby, church, this is your baby! And if it’s your baby, that means you are doing the labor! And so again, there’s going to be some discomfort involved. And that is not necessarily an expectation that congregations have, or that people come to church have. There are cultural reasons for this, but people tend to expect that their church experience is about being comfortable.
Todd Yonkman
And so, to set that expectation upfront, that now it’s going to be a little bit uncomfortable, and there’s going to be some work to be done. And conflict may arise, because we are creating a space in which each of us can be our true authentic selves and can invite the whole self into the conversation. So, that automatically means there’s going to be a variety of viewpoints. There’s going to be emotions. So, we’re going to need to be able to handle conflict in a healthy way. And sometimes when that conflict arises, and going back to this wilderness metaphor: you’re out in the middle of the wilderness, and just like with Moses and the Israelites, people are gonna want to turn back. They’re gonna complain, How could you do this Moses?! You brought us out in the wilderness to die. We’d rather just go back to Egypt, where at least we had our bellies full. Yes, we were slaves. But at least we had that.
Todd Yonkman
And so, setting the expectation up allows the transitional minister and the leadership team, the church council, whatever the leadership team is, to point back to and say, Hey, this is what we agreed to. And so, if we need to change that, then we can have a conversation around that. But just want to remind everyone that we agreed to this upfront. So, that gets into the contracting around transitional ministry, which I find really helpful. There are actual concrete steps around contracting. There’s not one right way to do it. But one of the things that I really appreciate about transitional ministry is this idea that we’re not doing ministry in general. We have a time limited contract and specific goals that we’re trying to hit. And that allows all of us to be accountable to each other for getting that work done.
Jim Latimer
Todd, that’s a beautiful way to kind of draw this particular bit of wisdom – to wrap this up. I several things have come to mind. One, I appreciate your use of metaphors. And you had mentioned the wilderness metaphor. When leaders use metaphors that are appropriate with a group, and they use them artfully, that not only helps set expectations at the moment, but it helps bring people on board and create ownership for what’s going to happen, right? Because if there’s change, as you well pointed out, there’s going to be loss, and people don’t like to lose things. But if they see, Oh, well, but this is what I’ll get for that, then okay. So, in the midwife metaphor, that’s a powerful one. And as you eloquently said, which resonates with my experience, if I keep putting out to them this notion, I’m the midwife. I’m not out in front leading you and telling you where to go and demanding things of you. I’m here to help birth this. As you artfully at the beginning, The church that we were is not the church that we’re going to be because we’re moving. Of course, that’s always the case. Right? And in transitional ministry in particular. And the midwife one is, I will help you, I will coach you, I will love you. But most of the labor is done by you, not by me. And that’s a really strong message without having to say that to them explicitly, because people don’t want to hear that. They’re thinking, We’re paying you to be our pastor! No, I’m the midwife! So, that’s all great, Todd. And thank you for the note about contracting. There’s so much we tossed out in this first section. Let’s wrap this up. We’ll continue this in a second Bit of Wisdom. Todd, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and passion with us here.
Todd Yonkman You’re welcome.
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